MISANDRY: Feminist Gay-Bashing

Have you noticed how much hatred feminists direct at MGTOW guys? Is it just because they can’t or can’t be bothered to distinguish between PUAs, MRAs and MGTOW guys, or is there more to it? I think there is. I think if we look at feminism’s record on gay men, the Ultimate MGTOW guys, we can see what’s really going on.

A while ago I found out from Daisy Deadhead about the Redstockings. They did some good and some of their stuff makes sense, but they had a nasty streak of man-hating gay-bashing and it wasn’t incidental, it flowed from their basic premises. So maybe all their good was really no good at all. And they were not some fringe group and they were not the only feminists of their period to use gay-bashing rhetoric and weave on man-hating and gay-bashing principles into their work. It turns out all kinds of very prominent feminists in the late ’60s and early ’70s went in for this kind of bigotry.

John Lauritsen gave a talk back in 1976 that lays this all out in great detail. He cites a widespread pattern of vilification of gay men and gay organizations by feminists of that time. Feminists conducted a campaign of disrupting gay events and undermining gay organizations. As they say, read the whole thing. It is a very ugly history. If you have never heard about it in your courses in Women’s Studies, go back and ask why. Bring back the answers; I bet they will be hilarious.

Here he quotes Carol Hanisch where she explicitly enunciates the homophobic claim that male homosexuality and male separatism are misogynist. Oh that’s it! It’s all about the wimminz!

 “Men’s liberationists always bring up ‘confronting their own feelings about men’ by which they mean homosexuality. Male homosexuality is an extension of the reactionary club (meaning both group and weapon). The growth of gay liberation carries contempt for women to the ultimate: total segregation. The desire of men to ‘explore their homosexuality’ really means encouraging the possibility of homosexuality as a reaction against feminist demands. This is the reason the movement for “gay rights” received much more support only after women’s liberation became a mass movement.”

There it is: men ignoring women is contempt. Even when we do nothing we are guilty of harming women, because we owe them attention and it is violence when we “deprive” them of it. Talk about a rape culture – they are entitled to our sexual attention.

So men have a duty to have sex with women and not with men. That is rape culture and it is feminists demanding it. Oh, and forced heterosexuality for men. Can you see the difference between these people and Sarah Palin or Rick Santorum? Me neither.

Or maybe there’s no intention of there being any sex – men are just supposed to marry and support women – because they “deserve” it like all the advertising is constantly telling us. Female privilege much?

Lauritsen gives Kate Millett special attention for her hatred of male relationships. She comes across as both stupid and dishonest. For instance she equates homosexuality and Nazism, which is an especially obscene piece of stupidity in view of the actual history, and a pathetically transparent piece of dishonesty in view of how well-known that history is.

He also details these feminists’ hatred of drag queens too. That hatred came as no surprise either.

This bigotry is not some little splinter thing in feminism. It is foundational. Millett’s Sexual Politics was seminal to the movement and Hanish was a founding member of the radical wing of the movement. She edited the Redstockings Collective’s book the Feminist Revolution and coined the phrase “the personal is political”. These were not marginal people or marginal views. It’s no good whining how feminism is not a monolith when every pebble of it shares this theoretical underpinning.

Speaking of the Redstockings, we are going to look at their manifesto in the next post on this subject. Even if you have never read it or even heard of it, none of it will be unfamiliar. You see it in every feminist space on the net and you hear it in every gender studies class.

Lauritsen says it best:

 “We must recognize our enemies wherever we find them. Nobody’s ideas and nobody’s actions should be exempted from criticism.”

Gay men in solidarity with feminists against hetero men? That may be attractive to someone coming out of high school and all that trauma, but  alliances with people who despise you are just sick.

27 thoughts on “MISANDRY: Feminist Gay-Bashing

  1. These Feminist are very Anti-Male & Anti-Gay as a Male I feel very offended by this comment I think if more gay men heard about this and more men in general learned about this.

  2. “It would have been inept for the ruling class to send someone into an antiwar conference who would say: “Look here, folks, I’m from the council on Foreign Relations, and we don’t like what you’re doing. The Vietnamese people are giving us a hard enough time over there, and we don’t want trouble on the home front. So forget about this mobilization. Why don’t you just break into small groups and discuss patriotism?”

    “That speech would not have been well received.

    “However, what could be done was to send in representatives of “oppressed groups” — including blacks, women, and gay liberationists — to charge the antiwar movement with being white, male, middle class, racist, sexist, elitist, etc., and to demand that it deal with these issues rather than trying to stop the war in Southeast Asia.”

    Sorta what they’re doing right now with Occupy Wallstreet.

    Yep, it’s a great way of shutting up revolutionary movements.

  3. I agree some what. Many men are drawn towards feminism since many men have been denied the ability to hold onto their masculinity. It seems that though that the only men that show a tremondous amount of support to feminist are men that have either a tremondous amount of assets or men that love pain ,like divorce etc these pitiful men seek exceptance where every they can find it

  4. I can’t believe the great feminist poetry of “cut the cock” has been forgotten. It truly is a masterpiece.

  5. Typhonblue, I think I can say that if movements are being sabotaged in this way (and I have no problem believing it happens with more politically significant movements), it is done by capitalising on what’s already there of divisiveness, rather than adding much of their own. You see Quakers pushing Esperanto, Pirates pushing men’s rights, even racists pushing organic farming. Once you have an opinion far enough down on the social acceptability scale, I suppose you have less qualms about gaining another or two.

  6. Gingko: I have to say, I was eager to see what you had to say on this subject.

    But, I think it’s only extreeeeeemely radical feminists who say nasty things about against gay-men. And for them, anything or any one which is NOT particularly focused on women is de facto misogynist. (That would include things like birdwatching, vegetarian cooking, particle physics and so on….)

    All the other more ‘moderate’ feminists out there see gay men as being very important political allies and valuable purely on that basis…

    …but valuable as men? Eh, that’s only worth so much.

  7. Thanks for writing this TB, You’ve inspired me to further abuse the wimminz by not subjecting them to my horrible male sexual appetites.

  8. “But, I think it’s only extreeeeeemely radical feminists who say nasty things about against gay-men.”

    Ah, yes, the old “It’s only the extremists; feminism isn’t a monolith….”

    In the next installment we see how these supposed extemists first enunciated the same old memes we encounter in just about every feminist space, how foundational their misandry really is to even “moderate” feminist discourse is.

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  10. “alliances with people who despise you are just sick.”

    Well, feminists are perfectly willing to hold their noses and tie themselves into knots about black people if it means that white girls with masters degrees can cash-in on affirmative action.

    Criticizing the overt, in-your-face misogyny of certain rap artists might look racist. So that’s why most white-girl feminists will politely look-away and search for more pressing targets upon which to focus their all-knowing white-girl feminist ire. Such as the insidious anti-woman messages which are diabolically hidden deep, deep within so many TV commercials and which need to be sniffed-out like truffles. And then, of course, there are all those pro-rape messages which continually pop-up in your morning bowl of Alpha-Bits!

    Ahh, yes, when it comes to the vicissitudes of identity politics? Certain giant targets mustn’t be allowed to rudely pop-up on your radar screen. But the right kind of microscopic targets? They should set your finely-tuned sensors a-blaze with red lights and blaring sirens.

  11. Ginkgo: “In the next installment we see how these supposed extemists first enunciated the same old memes we encounter in just about every feminist space, how foundational their misandry really is to even “moderate” feminist discourse is.”

    I don’t doubt it. I used to think that a common ground could be found with the more moderate feminists but not anymore. I now consider the whole thing toxic. What did it for me was NSWATM. I figured that if That’s the best that feminists can do then there is no hope for compromise. Occasionally I’m surprised and find a reasonable feminist, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

  12. “I don’t doubt it. I used to think that a common ground could be found with the more moderate feminists but not anymore. ”

    That’s exactly what I mena. Not only are Redstocking memes like “male privilege” and the wehole gender as class common in moderate spaces, but they are esential to that whole discourse. If you take those inescapbaley misandrsit (and also misogynist) things out of mainstream feminist discourse, the whole thing falls apart. It’s like the divinity of Christ – if you take that away you end up with nothing left of Christianity.

  13. Ginkgo: “Not only are Redstocking memes like “male privilege” and the wehole gender as class common in moderate spaces, but they are esential to that whole discourse.”

    This is it exactly. As much as feminists go on about equality and the wide tent, or whatever, this is what makes a feminist: the reliance on this incredibly shaky theoretical foundation. That’s what they all have in common to some degree. Can’t wait for the next installment.

  14. Adiabat: As much as feminists go on about equality and the wide tent, or whatever,

    The tent sure as hell wasn’t wide enough for the likes of Camille Paglia and Daphne Patai, was it? Mary Daly? Sure. No problem. She was 100% welcome to wear the team’s jersey and speak from the team’s soap-box using the team’s microphone.

    There are plenty of impure ideas that can get you kicked-out of the tent. You want to restrict abortion? You say something that might be racist? You think men are actual human beings? Goodbye, sister. You’re no longer on the team. But nobody ever gets kicked-off the team for hating men too much.

    This undeniable feature of feminism sends its a message of its own. Loud and clear.

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  16. Wow. You guys make me really sad. At the risk of being one of those, “But I have friends who are gay!” people… well dammit I DO have both male and female gay and bisexual friends! And I love them and cherish them as much as any female friends of any sexual persuasion. I love men. I’m happily engaged to a man. My male friends actually slightly outnumber my female friends. I have never really considered myself a “feminist” because I do not see a fight between men and women, I do not see a fight between Democrats and Republicans. I see a fight against patriarchy and I see fights for equality under the law for EVERYONE. I have signed petitions, written letters and have, in every way I am able to, supported equal rights for everyone. The current rash of anti-woman bills and laws suddenly going on in our government DOES need to be addressed. It affects the world my daughter will live in. This does not mean I’m going to stop advocating for gay rights because those affect the world MANY people who are deeply dear to me live in. And if “feminists” have acted badly towards gays please also remember that this is not true of all women and not all women who are not only appalled but TERRIFIED of what is currently happening in our government and have taken up the “feminist” flag in order to fight it are in any way, shape, or form, your enemies. I want equality and SAFETY for you and for me. I am willing to fight on both fronts to achieve it. So please don’t lump me and the MANY like me in with others who have been hateful and not acted as they should. Thank you.

  17. Alex: I’m not really sure how to take your post. You seem to put forward conflicting positions that you hold. It would help if you said what exactly makes you sad.

    “And if “feminists” have acted badly towards gays please also remember that this is not true of all women”

    Firstly, why the “if”. The article clearly points out that this has happened. If you disagree say why, don’t include an “if” in your sentence as though it isn’t true without bothering to say why it isn’t true.

    Secondly, yes we know that not all women are feminists. That’s why we criticise feminists and not women. Most women do believe in equality. Most women are great people and that’s why I come down on anyone on this blog and elsewhere who lumps the amazing women I know with feminists.

  18. Have you ever seen RENT? The big, black gay man was dating a cross-dresser.They don’t date women cause they don’t like women . Maybe the fleame anatomy disgusts them (that’s what one gay guy told me). Maybe they just like the femininity of the other man but still like the fact that he IS still a man.

  19. Aych: “Criticizing the overt, in-your-face misogyny of certain rap artists might look racist. So that’s why most white-girl feminists will politely look-away and search for more pressing targets upon which to focus their all-knowing white-girl feminist ire.”

    Singling out rap for its misogyny is like, white people tactic #1. Because indie music can’t be sexist or something. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to get back to listening to Pinkerton.

  20. Thanks for this post Ginkgo.

    I’m working on a talk at the moment that I’ll be calling something like: “Hey Feminism: Give Me Back My Sexuality”, in which I will lament the hijacking of homosexuality by feminism and the resultant erasure and outlawing of masculinity within gay (male) culture. Your links should help with that.

    It seems to me that homosexuals are natural allies for their corresponding gender rights movements; lesbians are considered a natural centre of the women’s movement because they not only have romantic attraction to women, but also can relate to the experiences of women in a way that male white-knights cannot, and are at a very low risk of falling in love with a man and abandoning their beliefs. The corollary of this of course is that gay men are a natural ally of the men’s movement; again unique among other combinations of sex/sexuality that they not only have a romantic attraction to men but also a fraternal bond that might be hard to comprehend even for masculine women.

    It seems to me that 1960s feminists considered the prospect of gay men being involved in the men’s movement as a threat, and so set about re-appropriating the burgeoning gay rights movement and essentially castrating it; perpetuating old stereotypes about gay men being essentially feminine and turning their backs on masculine gay men. To this day, most of the gay men I know who are in the closet are masculine; the genderqueer figureheads of the movement seem to think that unless they are willing to cut off their balls, declare themselves “queer” and join the feminist movement, they are better off left in the closet where they can quietly rot.

    As a gay MRA, it pisses me off that my sexuality has been hijacked by feminism.

    Any other links or books you have on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

  21. I do recall a cultural environment which was strongly promoting gay male relationships while being highly misogynistic – ancient Greeks.
    I wouldn’t be surprised to find modern feminists staunchly believing that all masculine gay guys are exactly of that mold.

  22. Uriele, that’s a very good example and it’s worth looking at more deeply. My sense of ancient Greek culture is that owmen were considered emotional and irrational and therefore lesser, and so friendship between men and women was pointless, and so love between men and women could never rise beyond sex and lust, and lust and maybe even just falling in love were considered to be weaknesses.

    And we still have cultures in that part of the world where they have a saying “A woman for children, a man for pleasure.” And women have a hard time in those cultures too.

    The question is why. Why is it misogynist for men to meet their emotional needs with other men than with women? In what way are women entitled to that from men any more than men can demand that from women? And why should it matter anyway – a woman need a man like a fish needs bicycle, after all.

    And if a woman does in fact need a man, that’s her need and not his. That’s her problem to tend to. I am still failing to see the misogyny in this.

    What I can see is the disruption in this. I can see that cultures where women do not have an emotional or sexual hold on men disadvantage those women. But why should that be? The other thing I can see is that the alternative, more like what we have, arrangement is prostitution on a cultural scale. If women need men to prosper and they need their sexual relationships with men do make that happen, that is prostitution.

    I think a lot of people senses this,, feminists in paticualr, and I think a lot of the energy behind the rape culture narative and all the rest come out of a need to redefine this prostitution culture out of existence. I haven’t quite worked out how.

  23. Dead on right here. I am a gay man. I am also a MHRA. I am bordering on becoming a full blown MGTOW. Feminism hates men-ALL men. The ONLY reason they ally with gay men is to have a “token” at the table-usually a very effiminate gay man who will agree with whatever garbage they spread.
    Unfortunately-the VAST majority of gay men are NOT like that-we have jobs, and bills, and homes, and friends-and are pretty much like anyone else you see on the street. Unfortunately, the most visible of us are often also the most closely tied to feminism. Pity. Wish more of them would wake up and smell the coffee.
    I have been bullied by women for being male, bullied by women for being gay-and as a MAN (regardless of my orientation) I despise the entire feminist theory-which is based on a religious belief that “all men are rapists or abusers”. They make no exception for gay men-we are acceptable as “tokens” but NOT as equals…ever…where feminism is concerned.

    Frankly I think that the Carol had it right in the 70′s-we should encourage men to explore how they interact with other men..who needs to spend ANOTHER half century being told you’re an evil misogynistic raping bastard. LOL

  24. Speaking of Kate Millett, she was inducted into the U.S. National Women’s Hall of Fame last year.

    Also, her sister, Mallory Millett, published an article last month on a right-wing site. Have you seen this? It’s about Kate’s mental illness and her crusade against the U.S. mental healthcare system. Mallory loosely compares her sister to Elliot Rodger in the first case.

    http://www.truthrevolt.org/commentary/millett-no-gun-ever-killed-anyone

    We returned to [Kate's] apartment in relative silence. I was trapped with her in an unfamiliar place. I knew not one person in Berkeley. I was afraid to sleep for fear of awakening in a deadly pool of blood with a knife in my back. She stayed awake for five days babbling, ranting and wouldn’t allow me to sleep. She was seeing “little green men” and her eyes were literally rolling around in their sockets. Never have I been more alone and terrified. However, love and concern for her and any others she might harm prevented me from leaving.

  25. Welcome, log!

    I did see that and it was sad. You just think of what it was like living with someone like that in the family.

    I think quite a lot of extremism in these movements is driven by personal demons, people turning their pathologies into ideology. Shulamith Firestone is another example that comes to mind.

    Stick around.

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